[Milva McDonald]: the meeting of the Medford Charter Study Committee, Article 6, Financial Procedures Subcommittee. This doesn't have to be a long meeting. We basically have two items on the agenda. One is to look at Gene's research and the other is to just go over some of the feedback we got from the administration about the section of the article six about the annual budget meeting. So should we do that first? Because I think it's pretty quick. Yeah. So let's see. Let me just pull it up so that people can see exactly what section we're talking about. So one of the things that we had talked about when we put together this draft was to meet with the administration and just run it by them to see what the timelines, you know, if the timelines were feasible. So what I've heard from the chief of staff, Maury and I met with her and she said she wasn't sure. And she talked further with the mayor and the chief financial officer. And they think that this, they're worried about this section. And I think part of the reason is because they have this budget ordinance. And they're worried that there's a lot of detail in the budget ordinance and that this might be hard to do in conjunction with everything that they're going to have to do with the budget ordinance. So if we did keep this in, this would supersede the budget ordinance, however, and that could create a weird situation. So, I mean, we haven't on the agenda to talk about with the whole committee tomorrow night. So I guess, you know, I'll just put this forward when we talk about this article, but I just wanted us to sort of look it over and see if we think, what we think about it.
[Jean Zotter]: What's their recommendation? Is it to delete the whole section or?
[Milva McDonald]: They didn't say, you know, what the recommendation is. They just said that this as written would not work. So, I mean, we This is in the three charters we looked at.
[Maury Carroll]: I was just going to say, everyone that we looked at and compared to has some sort of language close to this. We kind of tweaked it a little bit, but they all have language pertaining to that move.
[Milva McDonald]: But I think that this particular annual budget meeting was only in Melrose, but we should look again. Do you remember it being in all three charters?
[Maury Carroll]: I thought it was in all three.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, I could be wrong. I want to kind of look now.
[Maury Carroll]: They always just had a tad different bit of language on, you know, 30 days, 45 days.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I seem to remember that, too. You know, and we can certainly look at, you know, some other ones, too, and see if this is, you know, commonplace.
[Milva McDonald]: Who'd let me just let me just take a look because I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure it was only Melrose of those three, but I could be wrong. Go ahead. Keep talking.
[Jean Zotter]: Well, I wonder if we if we want to keep this section and we could say, you know, between these days. And then add a clause that says, or at another time mutually agreed by the mayor and city council or something so that the button allowing whatever budget ordinance timeline to be in effect.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't know if we should mention the budget ordinance in the charter.
[Jean Zotter]: I don't know. No, I wasn't saying the ordinance. No, just say, or add another mutually agreed upon time between the mayor and city council. Just don't mention an ordinance, but that would be how they would agree.
[Eunice Browne]: Okay, what I particularly like about this and, you know. Maybe we can move it to another time in the calendar or something like that. Is that it forces communication. And collaboration between the 3 among all 3 branches. And it gets them to sit down in 1 room with each other. and I think that that's something that's been lacking, and I think it's something that is really important.
[Maury Carroll]: I'm glad you said, Eunice, because that was my position when we talked about all of this. Funny, when we, Melvin, you might recall when we opened the meeting up down there with the chief of staff and the the other gentleman that was there, they kind of chuckled when we said, you know, this is a good way to get all three together. Like, you know, you got a better chance of seeing God or something, so. But I kind of like forcing their hand a little bit, making everybody come to the table and put your feelings aside because you're working for the city, you're working for the community, you're working for the people of the city. And we should be in a position to demand that they work in the best interests of the citizens of the city.
[Eunice Browne]: If I had my druthers, I'd have the bodies meeting a few times a year. But that didn't seem to go so well. So I think requiring them to sit down once, we should be able to find a way to ensure that they do that.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. The question is the reason for that. I think that the concern is, based on the requirements in the budget ordinance and the timeline of this and what it requires the administration to do. That's what they're worried about. I can't find that document right now, but I'll check for tomorrow night to find out if all three charters have this. I really think it was only Melrose that had this.
[Maury Carroll]: If I recall, like I said earlier, I thought it was all three that we looked at, but they had a little bit different language. I think somebody even had like before January and we said, yeah, that'd be stupid. You're not even, you know, six months into the fiscal year. How can you make a judgment of where you're at?
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah. Okay. I'll take a look at, um, You know, a handful of other charters so that we have maybe a few. You know, take a look at.
[Milva McDonald]: What I'm thinking is that maybe some of this language, like revenue and expenditure forecasts. Like, maybe if we just edited it to say. To review to review the financial condition of the city can mean a lot of things. And. We could just say end it there or take, I think the forecasts are a little like, oh, that implies that there has to be a lot of material put together that maybe there's a concern that it's not going to be available. What do you guys think about that?
[Eunice Browne]: In looking at some of the budget stuff that's been prepared for the budget meetings that have been occurring now for the last few weeks, And knowing, I think, what Bob Dickinson, the finance guy, does, I mean, if we're looking at a meeting, say, in, I don't know, 100 days puts us where? Early March? I can't, we should be able to, July, August, September, October, November, December, we should have, The bodies, the, the school side and the city side should be able to have at least the 1st, 2 quarters of the budget. You know, whatever. I don't know what they call it, but that's too, if we're looking at early March, then they should have the first two quarters of any data of revenue and expenses and things like that. So, I mean, even to be able to provide that much and then just sort of a narrative of how things are going, what, I mean, does the city feel like all of a sudden we're here in March and they've allocated X amount of dollars for pencils and all the pencils are gone and they have to order more for whatever reason. So it gives an idea of, oh, we used more of X than we thought. Yeah. And or on the school side, you know, we started this program and we've had, we didn't know how it was going to go, but we've had a waiting list for it. And so now next year, we're going to have to, you know, add a staff member or buy more materials or more narrative form than, you know, maybe data.
[Jean Zotter]: I'm looking at Eunice, you probably are more up to date on this than I am the proposed ordinance. The budget ordinance, which requires quarterly. Financial reports and media, I mean, it's, it's more extensive and there's. Yes, it is much more extensive, but it has that in there. It has more than what we're saying has to happen.
[Milva McDonald]: It does, and I think that the concern was that this, even though it's just one annual budget meeting, that it could sort of interface weirdly with all those requirements in the ordinance.
[Jean Zotter]: Because what I hear Eunice and Maury saying is they want to make sure this happens, but the ordinance is requiring it quarterly.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, for all three branches?
[Jean Zotter]: Let's see. So there's quarterly financial reports and meetings. The finance director will provide a written report regarding the city's finances to city council on a quarterly basis no later than 60 days after the end of each quarter of the fiscal year. The city council will hold a committee or subcommittee meeting to review the reports. I guess they're not They're exchanging information. They're not meeting in person.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, no, I don't think they're requiring. I think it's more having the finance guy come before them. Right. And that's on the city side. I don't think it really has much to do with the school side. I think they kind of, even though the city council approves their budget, I think the school, they do all of their own finance work. They have a finance guy that does all their data. So I don't think that they're bringing all three bodies together. I think it's just a finance guy coming before them.
[Jean Zotter]: Before city council, yeah. And then there is a Preliminary budget meeting. The city council will hold preliminary budget meetings between April 15th to May 15th of each year.
[Eunice Browne]: That is what they're doing now. And that's what actually is occurring at 6 o'clock tonight is the 5th or 6th meeting because they're following the budget ordinance now. you know, a meeting or two ago, they've been following it. So the departments are coming before them to present their budget. The school hasn't come before them yet.
[Milva McDonald]: So, so no earlier than 100 days before the beginning, no later than 60 days before the beginning of the fiscal year puts us in, uh,
[Jean Zotter]: March, right? End of March? It depends on how we define days, which we never quite decided. But if you include weekends, then yes, right?
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah, so. Yeah, I thought it was calendar days. It wasn't business days. And I thought, I think it was, we get them back into March, that would give them enough time to get through their June 30th fiscal year budgetary concerns.
[Milva McDonald]: And when do those preliminary budget meetings start? They start in April? From April 15th to May 15th is what the ordinance says. So this would come before that?
[Maury Carroll]: Yes. That was the consideration that we were taking, not to interfere with them. But this individual council, I think, is a little more aggressive than the previous 40 years of when they try to get the budget through, you know. And, you know, last year was the earliest the budget was ever submitted by the mayor in decades. But, you know, it's about time they're trying. At least, I think there's a good faith effort in trying to do something here on getting a budget in, not be 11th hour.
[Milva McDonald]: OK, what do you all think about my suggestion, just to change the language a bit? Just because I think that it's important to try to respond to the feedback we got. What's your proposal, Melvin? Just take out, it's in the comments there. I don't know if you can see it. It's basically to just take out to review revenue and expenditure forecast, which is the most specific thing in there, right?
[Unidentified]: Sure.
[Milva McDonald]: So basically I think then as it would read, it would say that the three bodies would have a meeting to review the financial condition of the city and that the mayor could share whatever information the administration had in order to develop a coordinated budget. So it's sort of like a preview meeting, right?
[Eunice Browne]: Could the mayor request
[Maury Carroll]: I guess. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought we also, that would give us, give the three bodies kind of like a financial outlook of how the city has been operating on the budget that they're in. They could be able to, number one, review that before they started going forward on the new budget and saying, okay.
[Milva McDonald]: That would be covered under review of the financial condition of the city.
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. I don't know. It's just an idea because that takes away. Are they twisting your arm, Milva? No. I just don't want to include something that they say is potentially not feasible. And I'm thinking that the meeting in and of itself, I think that the word about preparing, you know, like the revenue, to me, it's the line revenue and expenditure forecast, because that would require a lot of information and a lot of preparation and a lot of maybe information that they feel they don't have.
[Eunice Browne]: If we put in something that's a little bit more vague or generic, then could the mayor request. or I suppose order her because the finance director reports to her that he or she prepares the first two quarters worth of data and asks the superintendent to do the same for the school side so that at least there's some data to serve as some guidance. So it would be up to the mayor. Basically, I guess what I'm saying is the three bodies are going to sit together and the mayor can, in his or her infinite wisdom, determine what um, you know, what reports and so forth should be brought to a meeting of that nature and then request their, you know, finance people to do that.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, I think that that could happen. I mean, like I said, if we take out that particular, those really only four words, um, then it just leaves it much more open. I mean, it's still a budget meeting, so that's specific. And it still says that the financial condition of the city will be reviewed, but it's general and open-ended in terms of what information is going to be shared. But the goal of whatever is shared is to develop a coordinated budget, which as I read it, coordinated among the departments of the city and the school side, et cetera.
[Jean Zotter]: I'm okay with that. Taking that out.
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah, because I think it, you know, I, I, I am also just a young guy because you hit it right on the head and over just by what you said, you know, just a coordinated budget between, all the departments, the different, the schools, and the operating of the city. That's the most important thing, that they work in harmony, and they work in the best interest of the city. So I don't know how we can hold them accountable, get them to do it in the time we matter. So I'm concerned about that.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I think the critical thing is to get them all sitting in one room around one table, looking at each other and talking to each other.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. So I'm just going to what's already highlighted. So I'll put it in a different color. And then we'll, you know, we'll share this with the whole committee tomorrow. All right. There. That's not the best color. It's too dark. All right. Sorry. Need a lighter blue. Okay, so we can move on from this to the other item on our agenda. Sure.
[Jean Zotter]: Yes, which I sent out a report, but I don't know that you all had time to read it because it went out a couple hours ago. I looked it up. Thank you.
[Maury Carroll]: I did. I had a chance.
[Jean Zotter]: Okay. And I was seeing my work as sort of focusing on why does Massachusetts have a setup so that the legislative body, which is city council, can only decrease budget lines but can't increase. So I tried to understand why the Massachusetts history of that. I didn't really find a good reason in my research as to why Massachusetts has a setup like that. I did find other cities and some other states that allow their legislative body for municipal government to increase or decrease. But it's a lot of bigger, major cities. Except for Alabama, Alabama is kind of similar to Massachusetts in that most of the government happens through cities and towns. Instead of some other places, they have large county systems that actually make more money and have more responsibilities, but Alabama is similar to Massachusetts in that way. In Alabama, the legislative body can increase or decrease the budget. If they do that, if they increase the budget in one line, then they have to decrease it somewhere else or they have to identify additional revenue source. So this wasn't super easy to research, quite honestly. I don't know if Google's gotten worse, or I wasn't using the right search terms.
[Milva McDonald]: I think sometimes it's hard. I think municipalities sometimes don't have the most updated websites. And I don't know. That might be why, too. Yeah.
[Jean Zotter]: So it's not weird or unheard of for city council to have that power. It is weird and unheard of in Massachusetts. So Boston's the only city that has that right now. I did find it was very interesting, and I guess maybe my main recommendation might be in a future charter study that somebody be hired to look at other budgeting practices and maybe make a better, like maybe that's something that could be reviewed in five or 10 years when the charter is re-reviewed. You know, there's some cities had, you know, in October, the city council and the mayor meet and they set up their goals for the year. And so there's like a year long budget process, which I thought was a good way of communicating and having everybody on the same page. There is a increasing effort across the US to have more community engagement and budget making decisions through participatory budget, budgeting, which really is a certain amount of money in the city budget is set aside and city residents get to vote on how that money is used, basically. So Cambridge, Massachusetts does that, New York City does it. So.
[Milva McDonald]: Can I just have an aside to that?
[Jean Zotter]: Sure.
[Milva McDonald]: So Boston, when they got the permission to give City Council that power. I'm pretty sure I'm right about this. It was a ballot question and it passed, but also on the ballot question was the formation of a participatory budgeting office. So I thought it was interesting because you couldn't really, I mean, I think most people were probably voting for the participatory budget office for sure. Right. And I don't know how far they've gotten on it, because I think it was just to set aside a certain amount of money to start that office. So I don't know if they're actually, how far along they are on actually doing the participatory budgeting.
[Jean Zotter]: I looked at it when I first started this, and it seemed like there was some pressure on Mayor Wu to set up the office so that it wasn't quite set up yet. So I don't think they're very far. They're not very far, yeah. Yeah. So that, I don't know that I have an ask for this committee. I just wanted to better understand, like, why Massachusetts does it this way? What do other states do? I do think it's feasible for legislative bodies to have the ability to increase or decrease, and it seems like it works in other locations across the country. But I'm not moving for this committee to change our decision on that. I just want people to be informed about it, and that maybe in the future it is something that we should be open-minded about at a future charter review process. I think we have a lot on our plate with this review, but it, I think it is something that could work in Medford. We are much smaller than Seattle, Honolulu, Salt Lake City, some in Boston. So I don't, I wonder if, you know, future charter study, if there was money behind it, having someone like research this more for the city.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, and then, I mean, the issue of the participatory budgeting is related, but separate, because Cambridge, they have participatory budgeting. Do you know how long they've been doing that? No, I did put their- Well, and, but they can't, but they still follow the rules of the Massachusetts General Laws, where the city council can only, so I wonder how that works, yeah.
[Jean Zotter]: I mean, I'm assuming the mayor sets aside a certain amount in the budget, and then there's a community process, or the community votes how that money's used, and city council either approves or doesn't approve it.
[Maury Carroll]: Right. If you're talking about Cambridge, Cambridge is still city management. Their mayor is just a figurehead.
[Unidentified]: That's right. That's right.
[Maury Carroll]: They're plan E type governments. I think three or four that are left.
[Milva McDonald]: So thank you for doing this, Jean. And do we want to have some discussion on it? Eunice and Maury, do you have any?
[Maury Carroll]: I understand exactly what Jean is saying as far as, you know, a small city and so forth might be ready. I don't think we're ready for it yet here. I kind of agree wholeheartedly that if we're doing a charter review in five years or 10 years, exactly what Jean was suggesting, that that would be the time to maybe look at it a little further. I'm hoping that the political climate Now, after this charter hopefully is successful and the city continues to go in the direction it's going, then you're going to have better lines of communication between all your bodies, which would give me the confidence then to say, OK, maybe that adding or subtracting from the budget isn't a political move, but it's a move in the best interest of the city. That's how I look at it today. I think there's a tremendous amount of animosity between the bodies still. And I think out of spite, you'd be seeing them today, doing away with this if they could, or doing away with that. So that's just my position and my point of view.
[Milva McDonald]: Thanks, Maury.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I think I go along with a good deal of that. I think we're caught in a couple of different places here. You know, wanting to. listen to the community who, you know, the reason that, you know, we're sitting here tonight is, you know, talking about, um, you know, a lot of the, what we heard from community feedback and surveys and from council members and so forth is a different balance of power. Um, you know, so that's what brought us to, to here. So, you know, There are individuals within the community, both elected and not, that want a better or different balance of power. So that's one thing. On the other hand, in looking at some of the final reports that you sent out that we'll be looking at down the road, Um, you know, it seems that, you know, a lot of communities have, you know, tweak to chatter. We basically, you know. wrote one soup to nuts. And so, you know, we've got a whole bunch of stuff that, you know, either we've formalized or created that's never been there before. Yeah, because there wasn't much to tweak. Yeah, exactly. Two and a half pages worth of tweaking. So, you know, I think we've done an awful lot already. And we've talked continuously about You know, this has to go from us to the council to the mayor to the state. So, and then back to the voters and then back to the voters. So now we've got a lot of. Wholesale changes as it is, and then tomorrow's point. You know, I think this budget ordinance is going to. Go a long way to opening up lines of communication and transparency. You know, part of the. You know, the angst over the last few years has been a lack of, you know, financial information emanating out of the corner office to the council. So now that there's a requirement that. You know, the warrant articles, as they're called, which is basically the monthly bills are, you know, and other data is going to be forthcoming on a regular basis. I think it's going to make a whole lot of difference. So I think I kind of agree with Maury that, you know, maybe we're not there yet. I think we have to. You know. See the data coming forward and bodies have to learn to work with that. On a regular basis, and then, um. You know, there might be some trust built up, um, you know, for down the road. The lucky few that are reviewing what our work in 5 or 10 years. You know, and I think, you know, we're all retiring after the end of this. We'll be the ones that will be making those decisions.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, and I just want to, you know, also just bring in the reminder that this would be basically if it were included in the charter and we tried to send it to the state house, it would, we would be asking for an exception to state law, basically. And as we've discussed, we wanna make the charter as successful as possible. And I have ambivalence about putting something in the charter that is in conflict with state law at this point.
[Eunice Browne]: So- Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the city council tried to do this with one of their charter amendments about a year or so ago, didn't KP law tell them that this doesn't really work?
[Milva McDonald]: Yes. Interestingly, the process that they were trying to use was a provision where there are certain amendments that can be made to the charter that they could send to the attorney general. as opposed to having to do it through a special act. So they considered this to be one of those because I believe the parameters are, if it's not a change to the elected bodies or whatever, terms of office, things like that. But I remember at one point having a meeting with the Collins Center, I think it was at one of our meetings, where the Collins Center, seem to think that that particular way of changing the charter would not apply to that change because it was too big of a change. So there's another opinion on the table. So there's a lot of open questions around the process that they were using, the legalities, all that. We have no idea what would happen if it was sent to the Attorney General or, yeah, no idea.
[Jean Zotter]: Yeah.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, I think we gave it its due diligence.
[Jean Zotter]: Yeah. So thanks to Jeanne.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, no, thank you, Jeanne. And Jeanne, do you think that, whoops, do you think that When you mentioned saying, creating a recommendation that the next charter review, you know, do a deep dive into the budgeting process and potentially hire a consultant or make that a focus, is that a recommendation that we want to bring before the whole committee and put into the final report?
[Jean Zotter]: I would like to do that. I think Medford might like to do participatory budgeting where some of the funds are through a community engagement process this, you know, there's more community decision making on where the money goes. So those those two things might be, I mean, I think that maybe they should look at how the ordinance went and what are the things that aren't working and just maybe put more time. And I mean, one thing that occurred to me is because most governments in Massachusetts are council manager like. that the city council controls the budget in a lot of places in Massachusetts because it's the city manager council situation.
[Milva McDonald]: But most cities have mayors in Massachusetts. But in the cities that do have managers, yes. And in towns where they have managers, probably too.
[Jean Zotter]: Yeah. So maybe they think that's your option. If you want that, you go that way. I don't know.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, I mean, it's interesting because nobody seemed to have any appetite for changing to city manager, but it did seem like some of the things that certain people wanted would have been more in line with that form of government.
[Jean Zotter]: Right.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah.
[Jean Zotter]: So yeah, I don't know if folks agree. I think we could bring that and just make the recommendation that the next charter review focus more on the budget.
[Milva McDonald]: Do you mind just writing up a one-sentence proposal on that recommendation and making it more night and we'll vote on it in the committee?
[Jean Zotter]: Sure. Would I write it into that document?
[Milva McDonald]: No, just write it down just so you can be ready to say exactly what the proposal is so that people know what they're voting on. That's all. I like that suggestion a lot.
[Eunice Browne]: I think when it comes to the writing the final report in general, I think that there's, you know, as we kind of go through the bits and pieces of it, I think some of the things that maybe we, you know, took a dive into and for whatever reason, you know, it didn't, you know, pan out. I think definitely there's a lot of things that we could probably, you know, write to our successors and say, now that the chart has been working for a while, and see how it goes.
[Milva McDonald]: take another look at X. Yeah, and that's if the charter makes it through, which is still a big if. And still a long way. I mean, depending on when the city council finishes with it, and then if the mayor agrees, and then it goes to the state house, and then I have no idea how long they take with it. And I don't know. whether there's a way to sort of influence them to move faster. I mean, it will be a home rule petition, which is basically like a bill, right? Yeah. So it's like cell phone going in the... And there's so many home rule petitions that, you know, there's just so many of them. So I don't know how long it will take them, but hopefully not too long. When do we think that...
[Maury Carroll]: But that's based on the state delegation, when it gets that far, pushing it through there. I find them, if they've got the right numbers in the favor of people wanting to do it, that it kind of passes reasonably. But it's not going to pass with only four votes in favor of doing it. It's never going to get on as a home rule petition.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: You know yourself, Milva, what we went through the last time. That's right.
[Milva McDonald]: That's right. Yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: You don't have five or more. You're dead in the water.
[Milva McDonald]: That's true, too. If the city council voted it through without a supermajority, then that would be different, too. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of unknowns. When might this go on the ballot? I have no idea. If all the stars and planets align. You mean for the Medford ballot? Yeah. Well, like I said, it depends how much time the city council takes with it. It depends whether the city council and the mayor reach agreement, how long that would take. Then it goes to the state house. And then, yeah, I have no idea.
[Maury Carroll]: It could take three years. Yeah. Plus or minus, because it's got to go on a municipal election, too.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't know if they ever have special elections for something like this. I don't know.
[Maury Carroll]: Not that I know of. I always thought it just went hand in hand with the municipal election.
[Eunice Browne]: So it ain't going on 25, 2025, so it could be 2027. Exactly. It could go on 2025. If all the stars and planets align.
[Maury Carroll]: I was going to say, good luck with that.
[Eunice Browne]: You haven't got a chance to see him, God.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, it would be great if there's enough. momentum that sort of, you know, that make it.
[Maury Carroll]: You know, that that's the key. If we finish our stuff in September and we've got a real viable project and a viable paper. And now we got to try to sit on them and say, hey, listen, we want this to be brought up. We want to we want to move forward with this. You know, maybe you get it within a year or six months after after the total document been presented. And then. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know.
[Milva McDonald]: We'll see. First, we've got to finish our job. And we're getting there. I think we're closer than it feels like we are.
[Maury Carroll]: You guys have done a great job.
[Milva McDonald]: Everybody has. Yeah. No, no, no.
[Maury Carroll]: It's been a great committee.
[Milva McDonald]: All right. So tomorrow night, we have much work to do to get through a bunch of material. But I think, is there anything else? wrapped up the issues we needed to look at.
[Eunice Browne]: I think that covers it for tonight. Great job, Gene, especially Welby.
[Milva McDonald]: Thank you so much.
[Eunice Browne]: Hope you're back to normal.
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